Canon 5D?

300D · 350D / Rebel XT · D30 · D60 · 10D · 20D · 20Da · 30D · 40D · 1D · 1D MK II/n · 1DMKIII · 1Ds · 1Ds MK II/III · 5D...and the recently announced 50D and 5DMKII

Postby JoePhoto » Aug Mon 22, 2005 9:22 am

Wow - I'm really dissapointed in the 1DIIn. Camera manufacturers are making new models out of the meekest of upgrades probably because of manufacturing part availability... D70s, istDS2, and now this. They could have done the rest with a buffer upgrade a-la D1x and a firmware update.

The renaming of the file prefix is a great feature - I use it on my D2's and it helps when shooting multiple cameras. Being able to write different files to different cards (RAW to CF and JPG to SD) is also very cool. Canon listened to what people wanted, but this could have been done with a firmware update to a 1DII.

The nomenclature is also getting out of hand...
The "N" must stand for:
NEW LCD
NOW Without Backfocus! (though not likely, as they are still using the same AF :( )

Sorry I'm venting... I wanted to see something groundbreaking from a company that has the cash to do it. The (EOS not Konica Minolta) 5D is great for studio/landscape/commercial stuff, but it seems that after reading the specs, they pulled a "Rebel" and hampered the body a bit to keep it from competing with the 1DsII. ISO is only selectable in full steps and is not viewable in the viewfinder. 3fps... sounds like the D50, not a $3k pro camera! I'll stop busting on the 5D now, I still think it's a really cool camera.

My reason for becoming so interested in Canon, is because I was contemplating adding a 20D to the mix a month ago. Several D2x users on the DWF picked up 20D's to use as backups or available light, or even B&W only cameras. For the price, they had a lot of features that couldn't be beat. It was revealed in a series of tests over almost 50 posts by a gentleman who shoots a completely "Bi-system" with a D2x, D2h, 2-1DII's, and 20D that the 20D is the noise king, and the D2x is exactly on par or better than the 1DII in that regard as well. The problems lie in the AF, especially in back lit or low light conditions. That was the deal breaker for me. But I tried a 20D anyway (with a Canon 50/1.8) and I was quite upset to find that with all it's speed it's less accurate in low light (reception shooting for me) than my old D100. I was getting a high number of OOF's and instances where it was clearly backfocused when the subject had backlighting, even though I was using the center (cross sensor) point. I really wanted to see Canon fix this... Grrr.
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Postby JB » Aug Mon 22, 2005 10:22 am

You were right Joe. A 1.3 it be. Well, I guess Canon is staying with the 1.3 imager for a few more years....errr months....days? Oh well. LOL. I guess that would be a little too controversial for Canon to come out with 2 FF DSLRs, not to mention, irritating 1DMKII owners.

One thing I do like is the larger LCD. The 1DMKII certainly needed it. For those who already bought a 1DMKII, I would imagine they are saying, "Hey, why didn't Canon do this in the first place!"

A 5D is basically an "affordable" FF DSLR. 3fps vs. the 4fps on the 1DsMKII. For those who wanted to go FF with a DSLR, but couldn't manage $7K, have an option to spend half that on a FF.

I think I'm more dissapointed in the 1DMKIIn release. It's certainly an improvement over the current 1DMKII, but I can't help imagining current owners of the 1DMKII being a little irritated.

These camera releases remind me of what we see in the DVD movie release sector. You have a basic DVD movie version being released, and everyone buys it. But then several months down the road, you have the Special Edition, including extra parts of the movie people wanted to see in the first place, and a better mastered audio track.

As to the "Picture Styles", this tells me Canon realized they had more...well how can I say this politically correct-like...photographically challenged high-end DSLR owners who needed P&S camera nomenclature. Personally, I liked the massive parameter settings of the 1DMKII, but apparently Canon felt their new high-end camera was confusing them.

I do like the separate writing of RAW and JPEG images to separate media cards.

P.S. I guess we can count on a 1DsMKIIn coming in the near future...maybe even a 20Dn.

Overall, this is the 1DMKII which I would be more apt to buy. The larger LCD and separate image format writing were two issues which have been solved. But this "Picture Style" thing has me concerned. Probably not a big deal, but hey, a camera for $3500 people should learn their photography skills, not have them handed to them on a platter. Just think, now you'll have a 1DMKIIn owner come up to you and say, "Hey Joe, should I pick Standard mode or Portrait for my wedding pics? Maybe choose Faithful?"
Last edited by JB on Aug Mon 22, 2005 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mattchase » Aug Mon 22, 2005 3:13 pm

I was hoping the "N" stood for network, as in built in wireless transfer. If that had been the only upgrade, it would have been worth it. The changes they made are pretty weak, as Joe said it seems to be a trend among all the manufacturers lately, and I don't get it, especially at the prices of these cameras (some of them). The changes between the D60 and 10D were not all that huge, though some of those changes affected image quality (which I hold in higher regard than LCD size or file naming), but at least those cameras were also only $1500. It was affordable to buy one in 01, and then upgrade to the other in 02.

I do agree Canon needs to work on their focus on most of their cameras. The pro cameras with 45 focus points work well, but most of their other cameras could use improvement. The new focus arrangement of the 5D sounds interesting, but only time will tell if it makes any difference. The other aspect that always disappointed me was flash exposure accuracy, though I think with the 20D and the new TTL flashes they have this fixed. I still have my 10D, so am not sure how much better it is, but it couldn't be any worse!

I have been looking at a new point and shoot, and they all have these massive LCDs on the back that take up the entire camera, and I keep thinking great an even bigger bullseye! I would rather get a 2" screen than the newest 2.5" or 2.7" screens. Of course, I am kind of weird like that. And I think I am going to end up with a 2.5" screen.

Now the 5D...it's way better than a D50 Joe! On an aside, I'm glad to see they didn't call it a 50D. ;) Canon isn't calling it a pro camera, even if the price tag pretty much puts it in that range. Heck, it has a full frame sensor that we know is of excellent quality (based on previous Canon sensors), at less than half the price of other full frame sensor cameras. I am a little disappointed about the 3fps, but then it is 12mp. Anyway, maybe not a revolutionary camera in the technology / feature department, but by no means comparable to a prosumer camera.
Last edited by mattchase on Aug Mon 22, 2005 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JB » Aug Mon 22, 2005 3:21 pm

One feature I came across was the "Magnify" feature. It seems to enable you to see whether or not your images are in-focus. I remember on my own camera, I used the magnify button to zoom in on areas to see if they were in-focus or not. Couldn't get that close though, but with this new feature on the n, Canon says you can zoom in to the point of a pixel.
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Postby JoePhoto » Aug Mon 22, 2005 3:37 pm

I wasn't trying to compare the 5D to the D50... just the 3fps thing... :D

Also, the 1DMkII has wifi available. It's just exoensive and not very good yet. But the technology is still in it's infancy.

As for the 1DsIIn's zoom feature, it is one that I use all the freekin time on the D2's. You can choose to have the directional pad (nintendo pad if you will) zoom in to a choice of magnifications when pressed in. It zooms into the focus point. Very handy.

In case anyone hasn't seen the samples yet:
http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos5d/html/ ... le_1e.html

Looking at the wide angle... they shoulda used a better lens! Otherwise, the image quality is excellent.
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Postby JB » Aug Tue 23, 2005 4:55 am

FYI, after going over the specs for the 5D, you do have 1/3 increments of ISO. :up

60 JPEG / 17 RAW buffer is pretty good. The only thing I'm hesitant about is the new Picture Styles. Hopefully they are more adjustable than what they sound like.
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Postby JB » Aug Tue 23, 2005 4:14 pm

Thought I would mention the pixel size of the 5D is around 8-microns square (8.02 actually, but take a way spacing, etc.). Very good. The larger the pixel, the more dynamic range. The 1Ds MK II doesn't even have this size of pixel. It's only 7-microns.
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Postby JoePhoto » Aug Tue 23, 2005 8:17 pm

But the 1DsII has better DR than the 1Ds... which has larger pixel wells. I don't think it's that cut and dry anymore.

The DR from the D2x is much better than any other Nikon body, but it's got the smallest pixels.

BTW - nice previews you have up JB. I bet you get a ton of hits with all the searching going on for these cameras!
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Postby JB » Aug Tue 23, 2005 8:41 pm

Yeah, to some degree you're right. Pair Canon's new 12.8MP CMOS sensor with their latest image processing technology (DIGIC II), and you have a pretty good combination.
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5D

Postby Cimager » Aug Thu 25, 2005 3:57 pm

I don't think the 3fps is such a big deal. Unless you're shooting sports it really won't matter and with a 60 jpg buffer and 17 raw buffer I think that makes up for it in most cases. I'm trying to keep an open mind on the picture styles. It's mainly to save on post processing time. You can still shoot in manual mode or av, tv etc. I think it just gives one another option. According to info they will also have other programable features you can download later. The biggest thing is the FF and 12.8 mp. It will give much more detail to work with in post-processing. Right now the camera is too new, hasn't been shipped and in consumers hands for some real testing. I think the only thing separating it from the Pro 1D models is the environmental seals. Having had the 1Ds when it first came out I can tell you from experience walking around with it and a 70-200 f2.8 L IS lens was one heck of a boat anchor around my neck. This new smaller size will allow the outdoors shooter a little more comfort hiking the shooting spots. I'm sure as stated by others here they didn't give it full abilities like they did with the rebel to avoid killing the 1DsII market but someone had hacked the software on the rebel to get the full functions of it's bigger sister. Just think if that could be done with the 5D wooo hoo mega savings over the 1D models. My canon dealer put me first on the list again to acquire this camera. Once I have it in my hands (after they heal from wife beating me for getting it LOL ) :bf I'll post some pics and give my own jaded opinion.
As far as the 1DMKIIn blah :down the improvements aren't worth it.
Over all the 5D opens up the umm pro level equipment to more people even though $3299 is bit to spend on a camera. It should fill the needs for most landscape-portrait-nature shooters for quite awhile unless you are into the pixel wars of I have the most. Right now most is specualtion. The real truth will be in the consumers hands and above all the person using it. Remember back to the E-10 days Most of us here posted some pretty great photos with it and all of us on here have come a long ways from those days back then when we first met. I don't plan on getting into the Ford vs. Chevy debate on our equiptment. Nikon, Canon etc. all have somethings better in their camera than their competitors do. It's all in learning how to use it and someday I promise I will learn :dance
Till then happy shooting and keep the great info and photos coming.
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